Blackheart the Inciter

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Xanous
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Blackheart the Inciter

#1 » Post by Xanous » 28 Jul 2017 05:20

Ok this guy has recently been "fixed" to do his mind control thing again.

This is the second boss in shadow labs. I did this fight on normal mode.

Since players in wrath do more dps than in BC there should be some kind of damage nerf during mind control. Especially feral druids, who just murder their party members one by one. (everyone else can unequip weapons, even then I don't know if this is a strategy you should expect with normal mode). Healers should occasionally heal themselves, I only did tranquility on my resto druid.

Hunter pets don't seem to be mind controlled and just dps the boss.

His charge did 300-500 damage in BC (according to wowhead) but it seems to be doing around 4k-5k on plate dps in normal mode, and can one-shot a clothie. Maybe you buffed this so he was a challenge without mind control, but its way too much atm.

Thanks for updating the scripts, just want to report my experiences!

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Errorista
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Re: Blackheart the Inciter

#2 » Post by Errorista » 28 Jul 2017 10:32


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ldjb1992
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Re: Blackheart the Inciter

#3 » Post by ldjb1992 » 10 Aug 2017 18:04

I would like to revive this.

Xfaction bug aside (cant heal xfaction party members after MC - kills run), this fight is extremely difficult. (understatement).

As a healer i can go from 100% to 0% within a single mind control, even with weapons unequipped. This, combined with the huge dmg output of the boss makes this close to impossible for every group Ive been in.

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kronic
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Re: Blackheart the Inciter

#4 » Post by kronic » 10 Aug 2017 18:59

I did raise this on the bug linked by Errorista. I'm very much in favor of some changes to this boss to account for the increased damage players do on 3.3.5 clients. Every SL group is having a hard time on this guy and most I know of are skipping him. Clearly there is a problem here.

I suggest reduciing the mind control time from 15 seconds to 8 to allow players to use tactics like spreading out, healers running away, removing weapons to actually work.

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Eronox
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Re: Blackheart the Inciter

#5 » Post by Eronox » 10 Aug 2017 20:52

that's the duration you're mentioning, if players can't reposition within a 40sec time window then idk


but ye blackheart could use a nerf of some sort, I just have it hard to get someone to specify the major holdback. MC'd players taking too much damage?
.

There's things that never will be right I know, and things need changin' everywhere you go.
But 'til we start to make a move to make a few things right,
You'll never see me wear a suit of white.

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flosr1
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Re: Blackheart the Inciter

#6 » Post by flosr1 » 16 Aug 2017 21:15

healers and caster getting killed in 2 or 3 seconds by other players for example

healers not being able to heal up the grp after MC is over, because whole party is close to dead. especially if you are a disc priest or holy pala. usually all their mana is gone after MC

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Mickiii
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Re: Blackheart the Inciter

#7 » Post by Mickiii » 29 Sep 2017 09:57

A possible solution to make this boss more managable would be to set a debuff on MC'd players, reducing damage output by 25%-30% during the MC duration.

That way, players still do damage to eachother, but not more than could be recoverable. As currently, some people are getting killed during MC giving the healer no chance to sort out the group.

A debuff during the MC would not remove the difficulty of the MC but would just give players a better chance to deal with it.

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Fitzpatrick
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Re: Blackheart the Inciter

#8 » Post by Fitzpatrick » 29 Sep 2017 12:21

Part of the problem is that the MCed players follow threat mechanics so that the healer is almost always focused. I seem to remember who was attacked being completely random and changed frequently during the MC in retail.
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Skembic
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Re: Blackheart the Inciter

#9 » Post by Skembic » 29 Sep 2017 12:22

So, are we getting any nerfs/"fixes" finally or ? :/

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Spectrez
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Re: Blackheart the Inciter

#10 » Post by Spectrez » 29 Sep 2017 12:33

We will take another look at see if anything can be done about this Boss.

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Mickiii
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Re: Blackheart the Inciter

#11 » Post by Mickiii » 29 Sep 2017 14:02

Great to hear, please keep us updated on your findings. :)

// The bear who wants the trinket. :)

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Fitzpatrick
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Re: Blackheart the Inciter

#12 » Post by Fitzpatrick » 29 Sep 2017 14:32

Things that can be done to beat this that most people dont do:
-have 2 healers. Lower dps on this fight is a possitive combined with faster recoveries and wipe prevention if one dies.
-swapping gear for stamina. I always do this as healer and it usually work well. PVP gear in particular is great.
-blow dps cooldowns on engage so they are not available under MC.
-spread way out. If youre a glass cannon you may even consider doing some damage then running off in between MCs.
-use consumables. Often I see DPSers just sit at low health after MC ends without bandaging or potting.
-DPS somehow gimping their dps via uneqipping their weapon or whatnot. This is the one fight in the game that gets harder with better gear, so ironically teams with bad dps often have an easier time.

This fight is not "impossible". I agree that maybe a sliiiight tuning may be called for as how it works under 3.3.5 mechanics, but I dont like this current sentiment that every difficult fight needs tuning. There are ways to make this fight much more manageable, and the fact that some teams just try to brute force it and fail horribly does not necessarily mean that it needs nerfing. Quite honestly, I think the best fix may be just opening the doors in normal as well as heroic and make him skippable.
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Mickiii
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Re: Blackheart the Inciter

#13 » Post by Mickiii » 29 Sep 2017 14:55

I would rather see that it was "easier" (not that i did not say easy) to take him out instead of allowing a way past him.
For me the best scenario would be that the door on heroic is closed.

And in my opinion, the damage done debuff would scale well independent on gear level.
It would not make the boss too easy, it would only reduce the damage that players take during the MC. All the other tactics are still valid and the healer must still be on high alert to get everybody back in business.

If i recall correctly from retail (and please, do correct me if I am wrong since it was a few years ago since i played it), one did not have to switch gear before this fight to be able to withstand the damage done by party members, or was i just lucky back in the days when farming for that adamantite trinket?

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Eronox
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Re: Blackheart the Inciter

#14 » Post by Eronox » 29 Sep 2017 15:15

Yes the damageout put by the mindcontrolled players should be altered and lowered, by my suggestion.
.

There's things that never will be right I know, and things need changin' everywhere you go.
But 'til we start to make a move to make a few things right,
You'll never see me wear a suit of white.

- J.R Cash


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Fitzpatrick
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Re: Blackheart the Inciter

#15 » Post by Fitzpatrick » 29 Sep 2017 15:19

-20% does scale with gear obviously, but we're already doing 1500 dps single target in 5mans and even with -20% youre still going to blow someone the fuck up if you dont change gears on the fight compared to some fresh 70 doing 800dps.

People will still go zombie mode and complain when they cant win. IMO let the guilds who want to actually coordinate and kill him and let the pugs skip him, without the reward of gear.
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