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Suggestion: Gear Restriction for BGs/Arenas

Posted: 09 Oct 2020 17:41
by skyx
Why it is needed:

1) PvP activity is currently extremely low/non existent on TW
2) People hate getting "farmed" by higher geared players
3) People that like to PvP can't because not enough people join

What should be done:

1) OP PvE gear (ilvl 271/277/284) that is better than PvP gear should be restricted (NOT DELETED) for PvP.

Why should it be done:

1) Lower the "barrier of entry" to PvP for new and veteran players alike.
2) Make it fair for everyone that wants to participate in PvP on TW.

How it should be done:

we can have a constant meta change where the max is either:
1) S8 gear without the OP stuff (so ilvl270 max on main pieces and ilvl264 on offpieces)
2) S7 gear without the OP stuff (max ilvl 251)
3) S6 gear

and if the server population recovers:

4) S8 gear with some OP stuff (max rs25nm?)
5) S7 gear with some OP stuff (max tocr25 hc?)
6) No restrictions (right now and definitely not recommended unless we miracously get a huge influx of new players on the server)
etc

Why is it a good idea (to the management)

1) Potential increase in PvP activity since more people would be willing to participate if it is actually fun.
2) New selling point (Most WOTLK servers are full of donor SM players)
3) Gear restriction is a lesser custom option than adding custom items for PvP balancing issues.
4) We (the playerbase) should trial this option for at least one PvP season and if the playerbase overhwhelmingly doesn't like it, it could be scrapped.

========================================================================================================

My ideal scenario for now is:
1) Allow all PvP gear (ilvl270) including tier2 S8 weapons(ilvl277) (because PvP gear should always be the best for PvP),
2) ilvl 264 offparts
3) and maybe allow ICC rep ring (because most/all players have easy access to it).

Why?
4) S8 shoulders and Tier2 weapons should act as an incentive for players to participate in arenas.
5) ilvl 264 PvEoffparts are relatively easy to access (Wodin's, ICC BoEs, etc) and are on par with PvP offparts
6) i) trinkets should be restricted to max ilvl264 (DBW nm, WFS hc, Bauble nm, PoTN nm, DFO nm) to allow niche specs/classes to be viable (Prot warrior, sub rogue,etc),
ii) no tocr25hc trinkets (because Solace/dc stacking is too strong and even Solace Hc on its own is overtuned for PvP and hard to acesss, especially frost mages). Purified Lunar dust (60 EoF) is somewhat on par with Solace nm.
iii) no RS25 trinkets (ilvl 271/284) should be restricted outright because human trinket stacking (WFS/STS or DBW/STS or DFO/PoTL/CTS) is a bit too much. Also, DFOnm and DBWnm are not as reliable as STS/CTS)

PS:
Nyeriah wrote:
09 Oct 2020 16:12
Just try to leave it open for a while and not delete everything or shut it down when the first disagreements arise, because there'll probably be plenty.
I promise not shut down any disagreements in this thread until at least 1 page of comments has been reached.

PPS: If accepted, I wouldn't mind "helping out" in the implementation of gear restriction (play testing/coding/etc) but I would need guidance and advice.

Re: Suggestion: Gear Restriction for BGs/Arenas

Posted: 09 Oct 2020 19:21
by nikkal
We have discussed this in guild, and i believe i gave you my points of view and why it is pointless. If anything, it's going to push more ppl out of pvp at all. (like there is any). And honestly, giving suggestions regarding pvp, when you hardly pvp is.. well...

anyhow, i vote against this. At least until we see how players will react after the merge. I still believe that will boost pvp and pve greatly.

Re: Suggestion: Gear Restriction for BGs/Arenas

Posted: 09 Oct 2020 19:24
by Imagine
-1 by me..
Such move would make me stop playing, since dont have that time to go hardcore again.
I like the way it is right now, so i can log on weekends and chilll out with guild!

Re: Suggestion: Gear Restriction for BGs/Arenas

Posted: 09 Oct 2020 19:31
by skyx
As much as I already want to respond and I know Nyeriah said not to "shut down" any opposition but please, add the reason(s) WHY you are against it on this forum, thanks.

PS: current PrimalWow players, please also respond and state if you don't mind playing against Full BiS Shadowmourne players who have farmed RS25HC for 5 years for Sharpened Twilight Scale when we eventually merge.

Re: Suggestion: Gear Restriction for BGs/Arenas

Posted: 09 Oct 2020 20:07
by nikkal
First of all, you do not need to be full bis gear or w/e to take on SM warriors. You need to know how to counter them, that's pretty much it. Any class has advantage or disadvantage. Secondly, restricting gear on level solely, is imo at least, dumb. There is a LOT of great trinkets in exchange of sts. Such as fos HC, needle scorpion for example. Or death's verdict. Even if you don't go pve trinkets, WG ones+ Relentless are great substitute, maybe even better for casters than current.
But, Lets say about Shadowmourne. You are unable to get Shadows edge if you own SM, clearly. So you can go to Oathbinder, WF axe, Hershir Greatspear, relentless axe, pos HC one! And again, nothing changes... I've deliberately reduced my gear, all the way up to furious, and results were same...
Now, even if all of that is sorted, pve gear removed etc etc. That still leaves a question why should i play arena/bg to gain gear i can't use in it, basically.

The way i see it, it's going to keep pve ppl out of pvp, since they can't use items in it, and pvp ppl just to stop pvping...

Lowering the barrier, as you say it, has already been done HUGELY by recent arena changes that admin team has brought. Meaning, you can't lose rating under 1500 arena. You gain a lot more rating if you win, and lose a LOT less if you lose a game.
Basically, if you want to pvp, arena wise, you just have to play in order to obtain gear. Everyone is given superb chance to obtain up to WF chest with every game lost. And only 4-5 wins after 1500 to obtain chest ffs..

Again, this is my point of view. Regards

P.s. sorry if some things don't make sense, i'm super tired, point em out and i'll clarify.

Re: Suggestion: Gear Restriction for BGs/Arenas

Posted: 09 Oct 2020 20:58
by Nyeriah
Well, the stuck-at-wrath-for-over-10-years issue won't fix itself, so either something is done to address it or you just accept the server burned out and there's nothing else to be done and it is what it is (which seems to be the staff choice currently).

Re: Suggestion: Gear Restriction for BGs/Arenas

Posted: 11 Oct 2020 00:43
by m0t3k
-1

Re: Suggestion: Gear Restriction for BGs/Arenas

Posted: 17 Oct 2020 22:15
by Joh0239
I believe current state of pvp have way more underlying issues than just the gear difference.

One thing you need to accept, to play wow in general and especially in pvp is that this game isn't and wasn't designed to be a balanced game. Add the fact that this is an old server it just fuels and increases the rift.

All private servers struggle with this issue trying to balance pvp and the gear is a smaller part of it. Even during retail players were complaining about PvE gear and have been a constant complaint. It's been discussed hundreds of times on every private server out there and there will always be 2 camps about it.

Restricting gear will benefit some classes and hurt other and another balancing would be needed. It would create an endless cycle of nerfing/buffing and we stray further away from blizzlike. Tbh blizzlike is not something we need to stray after but we need to be aware of it that it would be a big side-effect.

I understand that PW players can raise concerns about being merged with players who have had longer period of time to obtain gear but there are players on PW that have better PvP gear than I do and I am one of those scary 10-year-old veteran on TW with BiS pve gear and SM that everyone like to advertise will be around every corner trying to make everyone's life miserable with my OP gear…

Majority of the players of TW are 2/5 WF main set with WF-offsets (cuz VoA) rest are relentless users, like myself. There are those sexy dangerous 5/5 WF but they are scarce and it's only because of the new Arena implementations that made that possible, before that fix last person who got anything from arena was back from 2016 and the players who had that gear back then and are still playing are even more rare… they exist but they are unicorns. Getting PvP gear to catch up have never been easier, you can be full Relentless with WF off-sets after a month of playing without ever stepping your foot in bg's or arena. That's what TW players always had to do.

I am for pvp changes, but only restricting gear would barely scratch the surface of balancing pvp and be moot. However this have been suggested 100 times on all private servers so I'm up for testing it for sometime and we can let the results speak for themself, maybe it's successful and everyone get a better time in PvP or it will fail and we'll be back where we were or back to the drawing table.

Re: Suggestion: Gear Restriction for BGs/Arenas

Posted: 22 Oct 2020 03:01
by andriuspel
simply -1, its up to player how he builds his pvp gear and there shouldn;t be any limits.
In addition, such ideas were published in some already closed servers and it didn't ended well