Frost DK 3.3.5a DPS PvE Guide

User avatar
rifokelt
Posts: 9
Joined: 02 Dec 2015 08:11

Re: Frost DK 3.3.5a DPS PvE Guide

#46 » Post by rifokelt » 30 Jun 2017 06:32

Crown wrote:
19 Jun 2017 01:25
Again, a late response, but expect me to be active on a semi-regular basis from now on...

Anyway, in your simulation, Winding Sheet indeed yields more DPS, and it fluctuates less, but it's because you have Glyph of Icy Touch, instead of Glyph of Disease, which makes all the difference. If you have GoD, it increases EP of Hit rating, particularly Spell Hit, and which is why it's a BiS item.

As for Kahorie's, check your inbox.
No worries. I don't have glyph of IT though, but regardless the dps difference is very small and hit as a stat is much more valuable on the more important fights (LK/Halion) so Garosh's Rage is the superior choice for the important fights.

User avatar
exchanger1
Posts: 118
Joined: 13 Mar 2014 19:38

Re: Frost DK 3.3.5a DPS PvE Guide

#47 » Post by exchanger1 » 27 Aug 2018 17:37

rifokelt wrote:
30 Jun 2017 06:32
Crown wrote:
19 Jun 2017 01:25
Again, a late response, but expect me to be active on a semi-regular basis from now on...

Anyway, in your simulation, Winding Sheet indeed yields more DPS, and it fluctuates less, but it's because you have Glyph of Icy Touch, instead of Glyph of Disease, which makes all the difference. If you have GoD, it increases EP of Hit rating, particularly Spell Hit, and which is why it's a BiS item.

As for Kahorie's, check your inbox.
No worries. I don't have glyph of IT though, but regardless the dps difference is very small and hit as a stat is much more valuable on the more important fights (LK/Halion) so Garosh's Rage is the superior choice for the important fights.
nah man, spell hit stat is very valuabe because it also influences if u gonna hit or miss howling fjord/icy touch and not to mention pestilence the most imp one, if you miss pestilence it's over
Crown aka Poslednji

User avatar
Jiranthos
Admin
Posts: 1796
Joined: 23 Jun 2015 03:43
Location: Not on your bad side, hopefully

Re: Frost DK 3.3.5a DPS PvE Guide

#48 » Post by Jiranthos » 28 Aug 2018 10:48

exchanger1 wrote:
27 Aug 2018 17:37
rifokelt wrote:
30 Jun 2017 06:32
Crown wrote:
19 Jun 2017 01:25
Again, a late response, but expect me to be active on a semi-regular basis from now on...

Anyway, in your simulation, Winding Sheet indeed yields more DPS, and it fluctuates less, but it's because you have Glyph of Icy Touch, instead of Glyph of Disease, which makes all the difference. If you have GoD, it increases EP of Hit rating, particularly Spell Hit, and which is why it's a BiS item.

As for Kahorie's, check your inbox.
No worries. I don't have glyph of IT though, but regardless the dps difference is very small and hit as a stat is much more valuable on the more important fights (LK/Halion) so Garosh's Rage is the superior choice for the important fights.
nah man, spell hit stat is very valuabe because it also influences if u gonna hit or miss howling fjord/icy touch and not to mention pestilence the most imp one, if you miss pestilence it's over
You mean Howling Blast. Howling Fjord is a zone. :)

Everybody knows that the best way to describe the ocean to a blind man is to push him in

User avatar
loveable
Posts: 348
Joined: 14 Jul 2015 19:46
Location: Iran
Contact:

Re: Frost DK 3.3.5a DPS PvE Guide

#49 » Post by loveable » 28 Aug 2018 12:21

Jiranthos wrote:
28 Aug 2018 10:48
You mean Howling Blast. Howling Fjord is a zone. :)
OMG tom :lol: :lol: :lol:
maybe his mean is "howling" on player "Fjord" :roll: :roll:
Beating Everything In WoW -> Ghost <-
Get Rekt , Get Rekt , Get Rekt = RBG
Get Rekt , Get Rekt , Get Rekt = Not RBG

User avatar
Rascall
Posts: 92
Joined: 20 Dec 2013 19:08

Re: Frost DK 3.3.5a DPS PvE Guide

#50 » Post by Rascall » 28 Aug 2018 12:36

I don´t understand why would you ignore caps. It is proven that as melee you need hit and expertise cap so don´t cripple your dps by missing that awesome critical. Count on shadow priest/balance druid (3% spell hit) draenei in party, talents giving hit but make sure you are capped in raid. There is a simple addon Examiner which shows you the stats of other players and 75% is not properly capped as I see. They have no place in ICC raid in my view.

User avatar
exchanger1
Posts: 118
Joined: 13 Mar 2014 19:38

Re: Frost DK 3.3.5a DPS PvE Guide

#51 » Post by exchanger1 » 28 Aug 2018 16:42

Rascall wrote:
28 Aug 2018 12:36
I don´t understand why would you ignore caps. It is proven that as melee you need hit and expertise cap so don´t cripple your dps by missing that awesome critical. Count on shadow priest/balance druid (3% spell hit) draenei in party, talents giving hit but make sure you are capped in raid. There is a simple addon Examiner which shows you the stats of other players and 75% is not properly capped as I see. They have no place in ICC raid in my view.
As a dk you should know that hitting expertise caps intentionally will result in dps loss
Last edited by exchanger1 on 22 Dec 2019 03:01, edited 2 times in total.
Crown aka Poslednji

User avatar
Rascall
Posts: 92
Joined: 20 Dec 2013 19:08

Re: Frost DK 3.3.5a DPS PvE Guide

#52 » Post by Rascall » 28 Aug 2018 18:18

I was talking in general regardless of class/spec. The discussion was on spell hit cap, not expertise as such. Although frost dk with BiS gear is close to expertise cap it is indeed a DPS loss as you say to cap it to 26. unholy does not need to cap it either, only blood dps as far as I know.

User avatar
exchanger1
Posts: 118
Joined: 13 Mar 2014 19:38

Re: Frost DK 3.3.5a DPS PvE Guide

#53 » Post by exchanger1 » 28 Aug 2018 22:53

Rascall wrote:
28 Aug 2018 18:18
I was talking in general regardless of class/spec. The discussion was on spell hit cap, not expertise as such. Although frost dk with BiS gear is close to expertise cap it is indeed a DPS loss as you say to cap it to 26. unholy does not need to cap it either, only blood dps as far as I know.
as for spell hit cap, spell hit cap for horde (not 1% hit buff from draenei) is 289 and for alliance it's 262 with all spell hit debuffs included. hit is very important stat, that's why garrosh's rage a 272ilvl back is the BiS and not the 277 one. but force capping it to 289? it leads to dps loss, we already know the bis for frost dk, crown released it in this dk subforum. and blood definitely needs more experties, sa it is less reliant on runic power damaging spells, but not to the point of exclusively forcing it. iirc 24 expertise is for bis dks in that blood dk bis list for an orc.

(In BiS list, hit rating for frost DK is ~232 if i recall correctly, this is wielding 2 Havoc Heroics that have no hit stat. the trick on how to get such high hit rating even with shitty havoc itemization that lacks hit is to get a shit ton of arpen, getting rhino food +40 arp => arp cap is reached and you can get +10 str +10 hit rating in yellow sockets which is a good trick to get around it. BiS ArP is 1388 in BiS list)

just to know that this is not coming from a random nobody, this is coming from a legitimate best dk dps dealer on truewow server (and I dare to say it, the best frost/unholy dps damage dealer in the entire world; meaning the entire wotlk retail; having been watching the performance and itemization of best dks in the world I know where I'm coming from)

In fact my character Poslednji had the exact same items/gems/race as frost & Unholy DK as Crown's BiS for Frost DK and Unholy DK that he posted here (I had many pieces of double items just because I was dedicated to gem some str/some arp)

I was playing in Hellraisers, then moved to Paramount once the whole Arnis drama arised, then on Divinity and back with Divinity alts to assist the horde and I stopped playing since. (2015-2016 period). So you can ask people in these guilds who did raids with me to confirm my claims, because I know they can be backed up.

Orc race is GOAT because of +5 exp on axes (2xHavocs or Shadowmourne for Blood/UH), this is a very good dps boost.

So I achieved maximum possible theoretical DPS (As Frost and Unholy) with these builds in Wrath of the Lich King (LK25HC + RS25HC all gear included). Not only theoretical highest but also practical highest. (and mind you this was before I got the complete BiS, I usually lacked 2nd havoc and STS Heroic, no tricks of trade and no blood hysteria on me) In every boss in icc/rs I was always #1 by far(in 99% LK tries/kills almost always #1 highest LK damage dealer, and this goes for any other fight), unless some BiS fire mage comes and takes the recount cake but even then i'm giving him a run for his money. (I was always looking for ways to optimize dk play, and after some time I pretty much was playing it like a robot who does maximum output possible) I tried everything, I know every trick and even "invented" some playstyles to maximize the performance.

Here is a glimpse of what it means playing Unholy DK lacking few items until BiS (I managed to get BiS many months after this raid tho) against Halion 25 heroic, observe the damage recount.
Loading...

Loading...


Last edited by exchanger1 on 22 Dec 2019 04:06, edited 1 time in total.
Crown aka Poslednji

User avatar
smartos
Posts: 52
Joined: 06 Apr 2014 16:01

Re: Frost DK 3.3.5a DPS PvE Guide

#54 » Post by smartos » 24 Sep 2018 10:22

+1 to exhangher1.
Nice to hear from u again bruh.
Zerosolitude - Frost/Unholy DK
Kroton - Retry/Prot Pala
Sweetstrike - Fury/Arms Warr
Erectionmage - Arcane/Fire Mage
Zeroshadows - Shadow Priest
Zeroarrows - MM Hunter
Zeroclaws - Kitty/Bear/Boomy
Zeromercy - CB/Ass Rogue
Zerocurses - Demo/Affliction Warlock
Zerototems - Ele/Enha Shamy

___________________________
Why do we fall?
___________________________

User avatar
rifokelt
Posts: 9
Joined: 02 Dec 2015 08:11

Re: Frost DK 3.3.5a DPS PvE Guide

#55 » Post by rifokelt » 05 Oct 2018 07:33

exchanger1 wrote:
27 Aug 2018 17:37
rifokelt wrote:
30 Jun 2017 06:32
Crown wrote:
19 Jun 2017 01:25
Again, a late response, but expect me to be active on a semi-regular basis from now on...

Anyway, in your simulation, Winding Sheet indeed yields more DPS, and it fluctuates less, but it's because you have Glyph of Icy Touch, instead of Glyph of Disease, which makes all the difference. If you have GoD, it increases EP of Hit rating, particularly Spell Hit, and which is why it's a BiS item.

As for Kahorie's, check your inbox.
No worries. I don't have glyph of IT though, but regardless the dps difference is very small and hit as a stat is much more valuable on the more important fights (LK/Halion) so Garosh's Rage is the superior choice for the important fights.
nah man, spell hit stat is very valuabe because it also influences if u gonna hit or miss howling fjord/icy touch and not to mention pestilence the most imp one, if you miss pestilence it's over
What I said is that technically there's a build that sims slightly ahead by ~8 dps on a static fight compared to what crown linked, but that is a trivial difference that is extremely likely to be due to the RNG seed of the sim. What's more important is that hit does get more powerful the longer a fight persists and even more so when there are more targets that are worthwhile (by this I mean things such as valks/any type of add that should be focused, not ghouls and the like).

As for your self-proclaimed best fdk, maybe you are here or were on retail. That'd be a very hard thing to empirically prove anyway since at near optimal levels of play (of you and another fdk) the deciding factor would be the DBW proc and when dodges will occur, basically RNG. I don't know you and you could be worth your salt but lol, reading this gives me cringy vibes.

As a last note, my older comments should kind of be disregarded. I can't remember if I've said this before, but back then I was a lot more biased and knew less. Now, considering I've specialised in Informatics (Applied math and Computer science) along with reading the theorycrafting laid here and on EJ, my knowledge has vastly improved. So sorry to anyone I caused a headache with some rather unenlightened comments.

User avatar
exchanger1
Posts: 118
Joined: 13 Mar 2014 19:38

Re: Frost DK 3.3.5a DPS PvE Guide

#56 » Post by exchanger1 » 05 Nov 2018 00:20

rifokelt wrote:
05 Oct 2018 07:33
exchanger1 wrote:
27 Aug 2018 17:37
rifokelt wrote:
30 Jun 2017 06:32


No worries. I don't have glyph of IT though, but regardless the dps difference is very small and hit as a stat is much more valuable on the more important fights (LK/Halion) so Garosh's Rage is the superior choice for the important fights.
nah man, spell hit stat is very valuabe because it also influences if u gonna hit or miss howling fjord/icy touch and not to mention pestilence the most imp one, if you miss pestilence it's over
What I said is that technically there's a build that sims slightly ahead by ~8 dps on a static fight compared to what crown linked, but that is a trivial difference that is extremely likely to be due to the RNG seed of the sim. What's more important is that hit does get more powerful the longer a fight persists and even more so when there are more targets that are worthwhile (by this I mean things such as valks/any type of add that should be focused, not ghouls and the like).

As for your self-proclaimed best fdk, maybe you are here or were on retail. That'd be a very hard thing to empirically prove anyway since at near optimal levels of play (of you and another fdk) the deciding factor would be the DBW proc and when dodges will occur, basically RNG. I don't know you and you could be worth your salt but lol, reading this gives me cringy vibes.

As a last note, my older comments should kind of be disregarded. I can't remember if I've said this before, but back then I was a lot more biased and knew less. Now, considering I've specialised in Informatics (Applied math and Computer science) along with reading the theorycrafting laid here and on EJ, my knowledge has vastly improved. So sorry to anyone I caused a headache with some rather unenlightened comments.
Well you may get cringy vibes, but the person who wrote this guide was me, so I know what I'm talking about to a full extent. I'm Crown, and this has been my other account in disguise because I did some things that TW admins didn't liked on my main (Crown) so they banned me.
Crown aka Poslednji

User avatar
exchanger1
Posts: 118
Joined: 13 Mar 2014 19:38

Re: Frost DK 3.3.5a DPS PvE Guide

#57 » Post by exchanger1 » 05 Nov 2018 00:37

Anyway, BiS lists are back check
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=35729&p=424648#p424648
Crown aka Poslednji

User avatar
exchanger1
Posts: 118
Joined: 13 Mar 2014 19:38

Re: Frost DK 3.3.5a DPS PvE Guide

#58 » Post by exchanger1 » 22 Dec 2019 03:26

rifokelt wrote:
05 Oct 2018 07:33
exchanger1 wrote:
27 Aug 2018 17:37
rifokelt wrote:
30 Jun 2017 06:32


No worries. I don't have glyph of IT though, but regardless the dps difference is very small and hit as a stat is much more valuable on the more important fights (LK/Halion) so Garosh's Rage is the superior choice for the important fights.
nah man, spell hit stat is very valuabe because it also influences if u gonna hit or miss howling fjord/icy touch and not to mention pestilence the most imp one, if you miss pestilence it's over
What I said is that technically there's a build that sims slightly ahead by ~8 dps on a static fight compared to what crown linked, but that is a trivial difference that is extremely likely to be due to the RNG seed of the sim. What's more important is that hit does get more powerful the longer a fight persists and even more so when there are more targets that are worthwhile (by this I mean things such as valks/any type of add that should be focused, not ghouls and the like).

As for your self-proclaimed best fdk, maybe you are here or were on retail. That'd be a very hard thing to empirically prove anyway since at near optimal levels of play (of you and another fdk) the deciding factor would be the DBW proc and when dodges will occur, basically RNG. I don't know you and you could be worth your salt but lol, reading this gives me cringy vibes.

As a last note, my older comments should kind of be disregarded. I can't remember if I've said this before, but back then I was a lot more biased and knew less. Now, considering I've specialised in Informatics (Applied math and Computer science) along with reading the theorycrafting laid here and on EJ, my knowledge has vastly improved. So sorry to anyone I caused a headache with some rather unenlightened comments.

My last post sounded arrogant lol, but it was true. However anyone can achieve DPS/playstyle/theorycrafting as me if they have have the burning desire with all their hearts to be the best possible dk (in my case i only cared about pve). It was a long journey of improving my performance, and I had to specialize in many different areas to come up with one finalized system, each individual mastery improved upon the overall performance. I had Unholy offspec with duplicate gears just so I can put strength gems im there lol. Had like 8 duplicate items like 3xT10HC and even RS25H boots at the end. That was so that I could switch from single target to more AoE oriented fights instantly. I even contacted highest dps dealing frost dk back in retail to ask him how the fuck did he have so high dps on sindy (he had like 17k or something lol, his dk name was "Cayseth" and with his yt video I was able to influence in fixing rune issues here on bugtracker) turns out blood dk was casting hysteria on himself [I found him from world of logs wotlk by using the archive, that website has highest dps dealers' logs in the world for every raid]


I had to spend A LOT of hours on the Archerus dummy, so that I could train my reflexes so they could become automatic, such as while attacking the main dummy and spreading dots to all dummies while constantly moving, just making up scenarios so I can adapt instantly when some bad shit happens in the raid, I know one time on Sindy while I was UH dk, tank died or something so I instantly nitro boosted to tank's spot, did frost presence and pulled it off perfectly until he was revived (Belendor was tank he can confirm this story, he was amazed) But it was just an instinctive response based on my extensive training.

Not to mention how many hours I have wasted simulating that Kahorie just so that I could find one perfect combination of items and release it on here. Then simming it for Blood (Unholy was easy though) I was obsessed about doing highest possible DPS. I was obsessed about attaining BiS lists for Frost and Unholy. I achieved both goals. Then I moved on, I quit wow right after and was no longer addicted or obsessed. I moved on in real life.


In conclusion this entire thing taught me a great deal, not only about gaming but about life, and how when you really want something with all your heart, you will achieve it, and for this reason I came back to post this entire thing, because it is the most important lesson I've learned and it needs to be said, yeah it might sound cliche but it worked for me and keeps working, it's not a "theory" or a random inspirational quote on the internet, it is a real fucking life principle, law even (I applied this principle irl too, and it works like magic)
Crown aka Poslednji

User avatar
exchanger1
Posts: 118
Joined: 13 Mar 2014 19:38

Re: Frost DK 3.3.5a DPS PvE Guide

#59 » Post by exchanger1 » 22 Dec 2019 04:08

smartos wrote:
24 Sep 2018 10:22
+1 to exhangher1.
Nice to hear from u again bruh.
Hey man long time no see, hope all is well with you
Crown aka Poslednji

User avatar
Jarjke
Posts: 4
Joined: 26 Dec 2019 06:33

Re: Frost DK 3.3.5a DPS PvE Guide

#60 » Post by Jarjke » 26 Dec 2019 06:55

Your rotations utilize the Blood Tap trick but don't inform the reader how exactly it works.

Razorice always procs off mainhand.
And the reason FC is better on OH is that Threat of Thassarian off-hand special strikes can not miss, dodge or parry, which results in higher PPM.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests