Question about talent bugs and skills about MM/Surv

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Eddywars
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Question about talent bugs and skills about MM/Surv

#1 » Post by Eddywars » 20 Apr 2014 23:47

Hello fellow hunters,

I'd really like to know if there is any problem about Survival talent tree because I'm trying so hard to correctly spec for it since I hit level 80. Sometimes when I pvp, I don't know why but it feels like the Explosive shot doesn't hit/Crit as it should(800 dmg per hit on 30k hp plated players and sometimes 2k critical strikes on clothies with 25k HP) and after speaking with several veterans truewow hunters they asked me if this tree was fixed and after that i wondered if the best for me would just re-roll MM with attackpower stack instead of agility/spell pen. I see 90% of the hunters I target on the server have Trueshot aura which means rolling MM, no wonder after veteran players tellling me that chimera was bugged. I tried to read others posts but none was informing about my question, which is: Is survival or BM worth speccing and mastering because of the possible lack of damage duo to bugs, or should I just roll MM like everyone else?

I really didn't want to be just another MM hunter out there, as I'm currently with 5.7k gs survival hunter-Eddysniper armory me if the problem is my spec.

Thanks for reading and hope for help

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Dropdead
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Re: Question about talent bugs and skills about MM/Surv

#2 » Post by Dropdead » 21 Apr 2014 01:44

DW chimera shot rapes everything here .

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Naljs
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Re: Question about talent bugs and skills about MM/Surv

#3 » Post by Naljs » 21 Apr 2014 09:07

My friend plays BM and does very well with it. I think I've heard about bugs but not sure, try it out and see how it feels.
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Justicelight
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Re: Question about talent bugs and skills about MM/Surv

#4 » Post by Justicelight » 21 Apr 2014 09:33

Hey there, imo for pve I have played survival/mm. Survival dps is always 2k under MM dps but i enjoy survival more. Problem is that Lock and Load talent from survival tree procs rly hard from Black Arrow which makes survival a little less viable. But if u seek fun roll a survival hunter in pve and if you seek dps perfection try MM. As for pvp, I don`t rly play hunter in pvp but for bg`s experience you can try out Survival (explosive shot, they los you and still die) or MM for better dmg threat upon ur enemies. For sure I won`t pick BM in pve neither in pvp. Enjoy!
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Dr. Who
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Re: Question about talent bugs and skills about MM/Surv

#5 » Post by Dr. Who » 05 May 2014 13:24

Justicelight wrote:For sure I won`t pick BM in pve neither in pvp. Enjoy!
i dont agree with you Justice.
BM is good for PVE and PVP but you have to see the scenarios. BM is not a DPS spec is a survival spec.
Saying that let me explain:
PvE:
In BM with Tank pet (if Skills and the stats of the hunter are shared with the pet working perfect) you can solo most the dungeons and raids clasic/TBC raids and some WOTLK dungeons.
You can even tank some bosses in Icc (proved in retail in raid party not Soloing).
"BM hunter is the BEST Solo Class in WoW i think every one knows and agree's with that."

PvP:
in PVP is very viable to, lets think. in BM is the pet that does most the damage i even dare say it do 60 or 70% of the total damage.
in PvP you must be in constant move and hunter dont have much instant dps skills and is when pet comes in handy, while you are moving your pet does the work for you, and you even have the Beastial Wrath if used correctly is like the pvp trink or the human skill that free's you from every slow or stun effect and even gives you the bonus of improves your and your pet damage. ^_^

but of course its not all roses. ;) BM is more like a support class in PvP because do the less DPS of the 3 talent tree's and if your pet dies you are doomed. :D
so is recomended play it only in Battleground or 3v3 or 5v5 arena, in duel or 2v2 i dont say it is useless but is not viable. :?
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Belthezar
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Re: Question about talent bugs and skills about MM/Surv

#6 » Post by Belthezar » 05 May 2014 16:06

The reason I don't think Survival is as good for pvp as MM is because what I considered to be some of survival's best talents (entrapment, lock n load, disengage CD reduced) can all be obtained by going subspec survival.

I've always liked survival better but it just doesn't seem as good because of what I said above. Chimera will always do more damage than explosive shot, and aimed shot can be obtained in any spec, the reason I used to choose survival was lock n load+ explosive shot but since I can get it as MM and shoot an extra arcane shot if I used other spells and have no need for any defensive spells I can't see how survival pvp balances out with MM.
BM is viable for both and would work fine, but I think there are bugs regarding pet's damage, and as BM your pet will likely do 50% of your damage, although I don't know exactly what the bugs are.
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Dr. Who
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Re: Question about talent bugs and skills about MM/Surv

#7 » Post by Dr. Who » 05 May 2014 16:19

yea. i beleave pets are not geting the stats they should geting from the hunter. that means low damage / hp / defence.
but i didnt tryed to. i have BM spec as OS but i only have gear for MM atm.
for BM you must stack AP and Agil.
my gear is MM gear so i'm staking APR.
i cant realy know if pet are working good or not. =P never payed atenction realy. but i can still solo all TBC dungeons easy. even in heroic mode. i could even solo Tempest Keep mount run till Kael start phase 3 then i die. hehe =P
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Mythilogic

Re: Question about talent bugs and skills about MM/Surv

#8 » Post by Mythilogic » 05 May 2014 17:21

Dr. Who wrote:yea. i beleave pets are not geting the stats they should geting from the hunter. that means low damage / hp / defence.
but i didnt tryed to. i have BM spec as OS but i only have gear for MM atm.
for BM you must stack AP and Agil.
my gear is MM gear so i'm staking APR.
i cant realy know if pet are working good or not. =P never payed atenction realy. but i can still solo all TBC dungeons easy. even in heroic mode. i could even solo Tempest Keep mount run till Kael start phase 3 then i die. hehe =P
If you play BM, why should you stack AP?
Agility i get, but AP? BM relys on your pets attributes?

(- Just asking, I have never mained BM, 'nor leveled up with it)

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Boxis
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Re: Question about talent bugs and skills about MM/Surv

#9 » Post by Boxis » 05 May 2014 18:05

Mythilogic wrote: If you play BM, why should you stack AP?
Agility i get, but AP? BM relys on your pets attributes?
(- Just asking, I have never mained BM, 'nor leveled up with it)
You should stack only attack power as BM for dps or just stamina for soloing with 2x t5 set pieces.
Why attack power and no agility - its because raw AP gives you bigger dps/dmg boost than agility.
1AP=0,22AP for pet, + 30% from wild hunt so thats 0,286AP per 1AP + 10% overall AP boost from Animal handler talent.Remember that also your pet gets around 0,129 Spell power per 1RAP(ranged attack power) you have, so that will boost his magical abilities(chimaeras,spirit beasts etc).
So at the end, 40AP>20agi because you will get more AP and your pet will hit a bit harder :)

And btw, explosive shot doesnt hit for low amount of damage,remember its burst is based on L&L proc in which it does more damage than chimera and which also actives when you trap someone(well thats also the situation when you want use your burst the most).

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Naljs
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Re: Question about talent bugs and skills about MM/Surv

#10 » Post by Naljs » 05 May 2014 18:36

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That's the answer.
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Dr. Who
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Re: Question about talent bugs and skills about MM/Surv

#11 » Post by Dr. Who » 05 May 2014 19:00

i actually dont agree in stack only AP.

[hide="Pets receive attribute bonuses at 15% of their master's stats:"]1 ranged attack power gives the pet 0.22 AP and 0.1287 spell damage (0.338 AP and 0.18 spell damage with 2/2 [Wild Hunt]).
1 stamina gives 0.45 stamina untalented (erroneously reported as 0.3 stamina in the Hunter's stamina tooltip), or 0.63 stamina with 2/2 [Wild Hunt]). Hunter pets do not gain any health from their base stamina, and gain 10.5 health for each additional point of stamina (10 health per additional stamina before the inherent pet health bonus, which was standardized to 5% in Patch 3.1.0).
1 resistance gives 0.4 resistance.
1 armor gives 0.35 armor.
1 point of spell penetration gives 1 point of spell penetration to your pet.[1]
1 point of resilience gives 1 point of resilience rating to your pet as of Patch 3.3.0. Previously, it was 0.4 points of resilience per 1 point[/hide]
let say like this:
AP = + dmg - crit - armor - dogde
Agi = -Dmg + Crit + Armor + Dogde

so to make things easy to understand:

if you want to be Dps BM hunter stack AP as main atribute and some agil. (pet will get more damage and crit)
this is more for PVP cuz for PVE it will still do less dps compared with MM and SV.

For PVE i mean if you want solo dungeons etc (like i like to do :P ) stack Stamina and Agil. (pet will get HP / Armor / Dodge)
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Boxis
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Re: Question about talent bugs and skills about MM/Surv

#12 » Post by Boxis » 05 May 2014 19:54

Dr. Who wrote: let say like this:
AP = + dmg - crit - armor - dogde
Agi = -Dmg + Crit + Armor + Dogde
Hunters pet DOESNT get any crit from hunters agility only the attack power part from it,thats why its better to gem just attack power and nothing else if you want to push his dps more. Same with pure stamina for soloing,you get dodge from catlike reflexes talent and pets own talent, so you need some resi (around 100) which makes your pet unable to be critted from bosses in combination with 4% pet talent (but ye that resi sharing is bugged now ) and just going for full stamina with abovementioned 2x t5 set and turtle.
Used to solo a lot as well with ilevel 200/213 gear, I think it would be a lot of more fun now,just need fully fixed pets.

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Re: Question about talent bugs and skills about MM/Surv

#13 » Post by Dr. Who » 05 May 2014 20:10

yes i know pet dont get the crit from hunter. sory if i made people misunderstood me. yes BM is based on pet but you cant relay only on the pet you must do some damge to right? ;) so you will need some crit with the hunter,with more crit you do more damage with the hunter at same time with your pet. have crit is allwais good.
about soloing, pet get shared armor from hunter (1 hunter armor gives 0.35 armor to pet) only stamin is no good. you can have 50k hp but if you are low on def instead you get 2k /3k damage per hit you get 5k / 10k. and pet will die faster than you can heal him. ( not the true damage /hp valors is just an example.)
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You Crying now? You have no reason to cry, if some one cries is because they are sad.
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Boxis
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Re: Question about talent bugs and skills about MM/Surv

#14 » Post by Boxis » 06 May 2014 14:20

Dr. Who wrote:yes BM is based on pet but you cant relay only on the pet you must do some damge to right? ;) so you will need some crit with the hunter,with more crit you do more damage with the hunter at same time with your pet. have crit is allwais good.
You already get around 40% crit as BM hunter in full pvp gear ( I have 50% as BM with my gear,respecced just to see) what is more than enough for your auto/aimed/arcane shot so dont see reason of getting an additional 200agility or so from gems to boost crit from 40 to 42.4% (50-52.4%), Id rather go for 400ap for actual overall dps increase for both you and your pet.
Yes,having crit is always good but only for MM and Survival (even for MM I wouldnt suggest gemming agility at all unless you have really bad gear in PvP).
^ thats my opinion.
Dr. Who wrote: about soloing, pet get shared armor from hunter (1 hunter armor gives 0.35 armor to pet) only stamin is no good. you can have 50k hp but if you are low on def instead you get 2k /3k damage per hit you get 5k / 10k. and pet will die faster than you can heal him.
Dr. Who wrote: you can have 50k hp but if you are low on def...
What you mean by low on def ? If you mean defense rating then your pet has just base one, it doesnt share anything with you and even if so I would not recommend to gem defense rating.
If you mean armor from agility...Then that 200 agility from gemming will give your pet 200 armor (full thick hide/full armor talented tenacity pet) what gives him 0,26% reduced physical damage taken (not magic) so there is nothing like 2k dmg instead 5k dmg but more like 1995 dmg taken instead 2000.
In comparison if you get 300 stamina from gemming instead, then you will get 3470hp yourself and your pet gets 2186hp which surely helps him to survive more till shield is up again (turtle) and you have a bit more time to heal him with your damage as well.

In the end its opinion against opinion, so I suggest everyone to try what they want or what they think its best so they see how it will work their way.

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Mythilogic

Re: Question about talent bugs and skills about MM/Surv

#15 » Post by Mythilogic » 06 May 2014 16:11

Boxis wrote:
Mythilogic wrote: If you play BM, why should you stack AP?
Agility i get, but AP? BM relys on your pets attributes?
(- Just asking, I have never mained BM, 'nor leveled up with it)
You should stack only attack power as BM for dps or just stamina for soloing with 2x t5 set pieces.
Why attack power and no agility - its because raw AP gives you bigger dps/dmg boost than agility.
1AP=0,22AP for pet, + 30% from wild hunt so thats 0,286AP per 1AP + 10% overall AP boost from Animal handler talent.Remember that also your pet gets around 0,129 Spell power per 1RAP(ranged attack power) you have, so that will boost his magical abilities(chimaeras,spirit beasts etc).
So at the end, 40AP>20agi because you will get more AP and your pet will hit a bit harder :)

And btw, explosive shot doesnt hit for low amount of damage,remember its burst is based on L&L proc in which it does more damage than chimera and which also actives when you trap someone(well thats also the situation when you want use your burst the most).
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