Arcane Mage -Blizzard vs Flamestrike (Frost Warding better?)

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Fastor
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Arcane Mage -Blizzard vs Flamestrike (Frost Warding better?)

#1 » Post by Fastor » 06 Oct 2015 19:19

Right, l made this test to see and explain why people should use Frost Ward talent instead of Ice Shards in their Arcane spec.

Image

People use Ice Shards talent to increase damage of Blizzard spell which they use to clear bunch of mobs on their way to boss. l am pointing out that this is actually talent that is not for boss fight but for out of boss fight or even out of dungeon/raid.

To prove that Ice Shards talent is useless l compared Blizzard with other AoE spell that does not use that talent, Flamestrike.

[youtube]bBP2lFGRK4c[/youtube]

Image

So as you can see on video, Flamestrike is better in terms of damage than Blizzard even with talent. We also saw that Blizzard is proccing more Clearcasting talent and thus keeping mana full at 100% at all time but Flamestrike is not lot behind so after 1:30 min test, l had 60% mana left.

Now when l started this test l was not fully prepared, l lacked Molten armor, Intellect buff even gems and enchants and ofc raid buffs and auras. But even with that we can see that those 40% damage difference cannot be dramatically change.

Thats why even on Arcane spec Flamestrike WINS and Blizzard remains only as PvP and leveling spell.

After l showed that Icy Shards talent is pointless, l will show why other option Frost Warding is good. Forget about armor increase l wont talk about that, l want to show its other value, and that is mana restore.
When you use Fire or Frost Ward, you get 30% chance to negate damage that you would take from enemies attack and instead get mana.

How much bosses are doing fire or frost damage?
Marro, LadyD, Gunship, VD, Sindragosa, Princes and LK so more than half ICC, should l count more?

Are you sure that will give me decent amount of mana?
Depend on boss but take a look on picture
Image
Conclusion
Use Firestrike for AoE.
Use Frost Warding talent to get to Icy Veins.

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Wilcox
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Re: Arcane Mage -Blizzard vs Flamestrike (Frost Warding bett

#2 » Post by Wilcox » 06 Oct 2015 20:51

you really have nothing to do, do you?

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Dropdead
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Re: Arcane Mage -Blizzard vs Flamestrike (Frost Warding bett

#3 » Post by Dropdead » 06 Oct 2015 21:04

Obviously you dont , not fastor .

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Re: Arcane Mage -Blizzard vs Flamestrike (Frost Warding bett

#4 » Post by Myaoming » 06 Oct 2015 22:08

Yeah I don't get why people use Blizzard. Maybe they think Flamestrike doesn't stack on the ground /shrug
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Re: Arcane Mage -Blizzard vs Flamestrike (Frost Warding bett

#5 » Post by Relina » 07 Oct 2015 02:04

I wonder how blizzlike Flamestrike on TW is.
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Re: Arcane Mage -Blizzard vs Flamestrike (Frost Warding bett

#6 » Post by Vaen » 07 Oct 2015 14:05

Yeah I don't get why people use Blizzard. Maybe they think Flamestrike doesn't stack on the ground /shrug
But it shouldn't be stacking on the ground...
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Re: Arcane Mage -Blizzard vs Flamestrike (Frost Warding bett

#7 » Post by Relina » 07 Oct 2015 15:36

Vaen wrote:But it shouldn't be stacking on the ground...
He is correct, look at what I just found, seems same rank Flamestrike shouldn't stack like it does on TW.
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lollypop
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Re: Arcane Mage -Blizzard vs Flamestrike (Frost Warding bett

#8 » Post by lollypop » 07 Oct 2015 17:32

I haven't done any tests, but when i'm on my mage, i usually do flamestrike and then blizzard over it, when you finish channeling blizzard, flamestrike ground effect dot stops, and you repeat the process.

As for mana return....mana isn't an issue on Sindragosa fight, with it's breaks, becomes more an issue on bosses like saurfang, the two abominations in plague wing, ie, long static fights...none of them has frost damage.
On LK also....the transitions are timed almost to a perfection for a mage to evocate, even at non mana saving rotation....

My 2 cents :>

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Re: Arcane Mage -Blizzard vs Flamestrike (Frost Warding bett

#9 » Post by ColdStep » 07 Oct 2015 18:46

Haha this is sick, keep it up ^_^

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Myaoming
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Re: Arcane Mage -Blizzard vs Flamestrike (Frost Warding bett

#10 » Post by Myaoming » 07 Oct 2015 20:38

Not sure what's better Blizzlikely. Flamestrike followed by Blizzard like Lollypop does? or a castsequence of Flamestrike's last 4 ranks?

Anyway, I'll report this Flamestrike issue on BT in few hours if no one else does it.
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Boxis
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Re: Arcane Mage -Blizzard vs Flamestrike (Frost Warding bett

#11 » Post by Boxis » 07 Oct 2015 21:18

^ In that topic Relina posted is written that it's pointless to cast more than 2 last ranks of Flamestrike, because lower ranks don't scale that well with sp.

Anyway, I think it would be better to make this test in raid environment because of the fact that Blizzard actually scales with haste and the frost talent has more visible effect with the added crit from raid.

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Re: Arcane Mage -Blizzard vs Flamestrike (Frost Warding bett

#12 » Post by Myaoming » 07 Oct 2015 21:52

Yeah there's an awful scaling difference between ranks. According to DrDamage it goes like that:
Rank 9: 0.724*SP
Rank 8: 0.651*SP
Rank 7: 0.398*SP
Rank 6: 0.109*SP
Multiplier is the same.

Worth a comparison test with rank 7 too I guess.

More on-topic: Flamestrike will currently surpass Blizzard in every situation. Flamestrike benefits from Haste as well. You could compare each Flamestrike cast to a Blizzard tick.
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Boxis
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Re: Arcane Mage -Blizzard vs Flamestrike (Frost Warding bett

#13 » Post by Boxis » 07 Oct 2015 22:27

Nah it's 2 blizzard ticks to 1 flamestrike cast, but ye at the moment flamestrike is better nonethless.

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Fastor
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Re: Arcane Mage -Blizzard vs Flamestrike (Frost Warding bett

#14 » Post by Fastor » 08 Oct 2015 09:06

Boxis wrote:
Anyway, I think it would be better to make this test in raid environment because of the fact that Blizzard actually scales with haste and the frost talent has more visible effect with the added crit from raid.
Doubt any GM would spawn 10x Training dummies during raid. Mobs ofc wont live that long to test. And also
Fastor wrote:Now when l started this test l was not fully prepared, l lacked Molten armor, Intellect buff even gems and enchants and ofc raid buffs and auras. But even with that we can see that those 40% damage difference cannot be dramatically change.
lollypop wrote:I haven't done any tests, but when i'm on my mage, i usually do flamestrike and then blizzard over it, when you finish channeling blizzard, flamestrike ground effect dot stops, and you repeat the process.
While it does fit in timing, currently that would be bad idea because it lower dmg.
As for mana return....mana isn't an issue on Sindragosa fight, with it's breaks, becomes more an issue on bosses like saurfang, the two abominations in plague wing, ie, long static fights...none of them has frost damage.
On LK also....the transitions are timed almost to a perfection for a mage to evocate, even at non mana saving rotation....

My 2 cents :>
Because of some people can handle mana others should not use another option to recharge it? Not all are Bloodelfs with Arcane Torrent, so putting Frost Warding in use is decent solution. Especially for new lvl 80s.

Also, what else you would use instead Frost Warning? Ice Shards?
Myaoming wrote:Anyway, I'll report this Flamestrike issue on BT in few hours if no one else does it.
Have it not been fixed last year as you told me once before?

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Relina
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Re: Arcane Mage -Blizzard vs Flamestrike (Frost Warding bett

#15 » Post by Relina » 08 Oct 2015 09:11

Fastor wrote: Have it not been fixed last year as you told me once before?
If Flamestrike spam is out damaging Blizzard as Arcane it is not fixed.
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