Lava Lash - To use, or not to use

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Mithrandir
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Lava Lash - To use, or not to use

#1 » Post by Mithrandir » 31 Jul 2011 03:39

Hello, fellow shamans, and people who are curiousabout what I have to say.

This thread is for discussion about Lava Lash. Fringe, possibly Alliance's best Enhancement shamans uses, I think his own build, or a build he got from somewhere. He helped me spec and explain Enhancement. I had spent point in Lava Lash, and I noticed how he didn't. Ever since, I have respecced and not used Lava Lash.
Now today, I was getting curious, was it really better? So I tried and compared.

Mainhand weapon: http://www.wowhead.com/item=50035
Offhand weapons: http://www.wowhead.com/item=50810 and http://www.wowhead.com/item=51011

Now, according to all guides on the internet, a slow mainhand with Windfury and a slow offhand with Flametongue would result in the best DPS, using Lava Lash. I attempted and got to about 5,3k DPS on a dummy.
Then it was time to use Fringe's way. Using Flesh-Carving Scalpel, a fast weapon in mainhand, imbued with Windfury. Not using Lava Lash. This resulted in about 6,2k DPS on the same dummy.

So, discussion open from here. Test, try, and attempt this for yourself, but I find, no matter how often I try that not using Lava Lash results in better DPS.
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Infinity - level 80 resto/enh shaman
Mithrandir - level 80 MM PvE hunter
Ashlynn - level 80 Prot/Fury warrior
Dejahna - level 80 Shadow/Disci priest
Mithrandra - level 80 Arcane/Fire mage
Moonkin - level 80 Balance/Bearal druid
Serenity - level 80 Demonology/Destruction warlock

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Protective
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Re: Lava Lash - To use, or not to use

#2 » Post by Protective » 16 Aug 2011 16:06

Does Fringe have the same gear? I'm using Lava Lash on my warr aswell and with the glyph of 10% more dmg it helps bit more + when I got my shamanistic rage on it gives about 3% extra mana back. Besides that Lava Lash should also give another attack which helps you trigger some talents. I wouldn't go for 2x windfury as it doesn't work very well, so you need flamentongue anyway.

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Mithrandir
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Re: Lava Lash - To use, or not to use

#3 » Post by Mithrandir » 16 Aug 2011 16:41

Fringe does not have exactly the same gear. He did use mainhand slow and offhand fast, though. I got a new item today in ICC25, for offhand. I'm gonna test that DPS now.
It may seem like a useless thing to test, but I will anyways.
Offhand comparison http://old.wowhead.com/item=50184 VS.http://www.wowhead.com/item=51011

I'll post the results in a bit.
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Infinity - level 80 resto/enh shaman
Mithrandir - level 80 MM PvE hunter
Ashlynn - level 80 Prot/Fury warrior
Dejahna - level 80 Shadow/Disci priest
Mithrandra - level 80 Arcane/Fire mage
Moonkin - level 80 Balance/Bearal druid
Serenity - level 80 Demonology/Destruction warlock

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Osyris
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Re: Lava Lash - To use, or not to use

#4 » Post by Osyris » 22 Aug 2011 12:22

Even though LL does pathetic damage it's used in enh priority rotation since 1.it's instant dmg 2. contribute to proccing Maelstrom 3. there are some totem slot items which give ap boost when you use LL(forgot the name of the totem). About weapon speeds TBC enh shaman used SLow MH and fast OH with WF/FT but after the change in FT mechanic in wotlk(see tooltip) it's advisable to use the slowest weps possible in both MH/OH(2.6 optimal imo). (see enhancement shaman topic in EJ). And wep imbues are WF/FT.

Edit: I've included some usefull enhancement resources in my sig :P

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Mithrandir
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Re: Lava Lash - To use, or not to use

#5 » Post by Mithrandir » 22 Aug 2011 13:08

Yes I've been running some tests again, and it DOES seem that in the case of my previous post, Keleseth's Seducer was better. However, there's a huge difference in iLevel, so it's not totally unexpected.
I did try, though, and my DPS was quite a bit lower with LL, than without it. What also occured to me is that WF/FT works better if you have a slow offhand.
Image

Infinity - level 80 resto/enh shaman
Mithrandir - level 80 MM PvE hunter
Ashlynn - level 80 Prot/Fury warrior
Dejahna - level 80 Shadow/Disci priest
Mithrandra - level 80 Arcane/Fire mage
Moonkin - level 80 Balance/Bearal druid
Serenity - level 80 Demonology/Destruction warlock

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2012
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Re: Lava Lash - To use, or not to use

#6 » Post by 2012 » 08 Nov 2011 17:15

There is alot of things missing here, 1st Lava lash proc's maelstorm, gives alot of SP, also procs talents in elemental (the melee talent proc) which makes more proc's and which makes your spells hit alot harder.. which gives you a flat 9% crit chance to your melee attacks, which makes your windfury hit harder, which makes your lava lash hit harder, which makes even more crits.. and did i forgot to tell you crits make the big hits?? The more you crit, the more your damage increase is.. I'm sure if you are raiding ICC 25 then you should be about 45% crit selfbuffed.. then increasing by 20% or more in a 25m So pretty much, your critting all the time around 70% of the time meaning, your lava lash crits 90%, your windfury crits 90% but your spells dont crit 90% of the time..
Rest you have to test out both spec's on dummy and see what crits more then the other.. but here is the thing..

Two fast handers proc maelstorm faster, making more spell damage then melee..
Two slow handers proc maelstorm slower, but makes our melee hit harder..

One slow hand and one fast hand shouldn't make much difference but it's just what people prefer i asume.. I like my enhancement shaman have slower weapons so I do higher melee dps and it has been proven time and time again.. Slower is the more melee burst, faster is the more spell burst.

So it's just the playstyle you prefer, more spell dmg or melee dmg or both.. I keep lava lash, because the flametounge enchant provides more Spell Power for our spells to hit for a higher damage output..
Alexandros wrote:@2012, you're not a troll, you may go way off-topic some times, but you don't go around the forums discussing/arguing with people for any little thing.
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Mithrandir
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Re: Lava Lash - To use, or not to use

#7 » Post by Mithrandir » 08 Nov 2011 17:34

I've been testing out many styles, and I found that before BOTH weapons are iLevel264 or higher, Slow MH, fast OH is better.
Image

Infinity - level 80 resto/enh shaman
Mithrandir - level 80 MM PvE hunter
Ashlynn - level 80 Prot/Fury warrior
Dejahna - level 80 Shadow/Disci priest
Mithrandra - level 80 Arcane/Fire mage
Moonkin - level 80 Balance/Bearal druid
Serenity - level 80 Demonology/Destruction warlock

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ribbaribbahey
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Re: Lava Lash - To use, or not to use

#8 » Post by ribbaribbahey » 21 Feb 2012 21:25

Sorry for necroing this but let me point out a couple of things.
That's because windfury's internal cooldown is bugged: i remember i was on a dummy with a 2hand and it procced with two attacks in a row.Normally it should proc 1 times every 3 seconds. If it would be fixed,having windfury on a fast weapon is just a /poke on the boss every 3 sec. Keep in mind that sometimes (only in pve i saw it) Maelstrom x5 doesn't fade when you cast chain lightning or Lightning bolt, so if you hold fast weapons you will become a LB cannon...this is a further (irregular) advantage of fast weapons. Enhancement is meant to use two slow weapons with WF/FT and lava lash.

Ribbaz - 2300 2v2 Enhancement
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Cazzuto - Arms PvE / 1950 2v2
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My Enhancement PvP guide

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