Mass leaving in RBG

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benzviliran
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Mass leaving in RBG

#1 » Post by benzviliran » 14 May 2016 17:54

Hi, so i wanted to talk about the situation first:

first ill introduce what happens in rbgs:

1)in AV's people leave and go offline mass, why its annoying? seeing the same player in the same AV joins and leaves 5 times is pretty much annoying.

2)In WSG, AB,EOTS,SOTA etc people leave/afk or being offline, why its annoying? because it happens all the time and always same names pop out, i even dream of the names in the yellow message "XXX has left the battleground" etc.

3)we have serial leavers on both factions, why its annoying? because the RBG system is made for high population such as over 5k so that you wont have to meet the same players and you wont be able to see same players in the next or same bg twice.

here in truewow we have 450 population at best that more than 60% of it are pve'ing only, therefor meeting and playing with the same players happens all the time and cant be avoidable.

therefor also 1 or more players that leave all the time need to be taken care and it is vital to maintain a good gameplay and pvp.

4)people go offline or afking in rbg and avoiding being afk flag, i dont need to tell you or perhaps i do need to explain it to some people as im speaking on forum and apperntly not everyone are aware of that but it is very annoying and would be the same in pve if 1-5 players would always get dc or bug with the ID in LK25hc etc .


Now, i tried to contact and speak to people who leave, when they have to go its alright, when they wish to leave its alright if they have something more important to attent too etc.

however many of the players who leave and those im opening the ticket for are giving me this excuses:

1)i dont like that rbg.

2)whats the point if we cant win?.

3)horde/alliance has 3 heals.

4) and more reasons that may cause higher blood pressure when you hear them.

now i will ask a few questions with a very obvious answer:

1)why joining from start if you dont like that rbg?

2)why do u cry when they have 3 healers when you cant even kill 1 solo or a dps solo?

3)why everytime its a bit hard you leave a bg or go afk?

4)why people gives those excuses while they dont even believe to what they say?

and just when i planned to make this topic and logged in to create it i saw http://www.truewow.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=34869 Mortium answer in it.

well mortium just few miniutes ago Wariand did it again so either he doesnt give a shit about what you talked with him (which im not surprised cause what does it make different when we ask him nicely or you do?) or either you wasnt clear enough. u can ask alot of people who did AV just few moments ago.

anyway since we are not going to and im not even suggest to ban etc whatever some people who will auto try to negative this topic will say that i do think that we should not ignore the fact that it ruins the RBGs and infact i would relate this topic to faction change that roel himself accepted.

how can i say that it is related to change faction topic? because if you deal with people afking or leaving etc in rbgs you can help that faction alot and do work that worth 50 players changing faction to support another one.

now how do i suggest to do that? if you see that a player does that very often and fail to give a good reason he should be having a long deserter on all of his characters and accounts. now i know that this is being done but it is done very very rarely and should be done much more often as people leave rbgs very often.

i would advice to start taking more often actions against people who leave/afk/goes offline in rbgs because the 15 miniutes is just a joke and doesnt help obviously.

I would also recommend to build a list or add it to an existing system such as in the pvp stats that a window with "left battleground" or something will be added .

this way everytime a player will leave it will be added automaticly to the list and people and staff could see how many times someone left.
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Mortium
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Re: Mass leaving in RBG

#2 » Post by Mortium » 15 May 2016 02:26

Alright, I didn't really want to give a too hasty answer since I was doing something else most of the day and wanted to rather give a more detailed response. We cannot monitor everything that happens. It would be nearly impossible for us to monitor everything that happens. One of those things we cannot monitor is battlegrounds. That is when it comes to the players to report other players, but even that is not enough sometimes. I am not saying that all reports are always truthful but I am not saying that they are all false. I am saying that us, staff, as a third part it can be sometimes hard to judge especially when there is no clear evidence. As for the other thread that I judged; I judged by confronting the player because I couldn't really do much more since I cannot myself see when someone leaves and stays offline in a battleground unless I am playing the battleground myself.

That will kind of give the answer to this report, there was not evidence enough to actually make any staff be able to judge the situation properly. As for the thread itself, I believe you have some very valid points but they lack solutions, as is the only reason why I am not moving this thread to the suggestion section, but moving this to general discussion as it seems like this thread will become a discussion most probably. You point out very good feedback, in terms of telling us the problems but as I stated the solutions to the problems are not going to solve the issue.

Let me put it in another way, you suggested to have a list of players who leave battlegrounds, by logging off or by leaving normally. Having that will mean that staff has to monitor the list, which isn't too bad. But it will not solve the problem itself. Players will keep on leaving if they want to which is okay to do since the module was created for a bigger population. But doing something about players leaving will mean that we need to rework the whole battleground system and that is what I am trying to point out, you would have to suggest something that could solve the whole problem, because sometimes punishment is not the way to solve a problem. Sometimes it might solve the problem only temporarily, whilst other times it has been proven to solve problems. Players will still leave due to valid reasons as well, of course it will not happen as many times as they leave for the reasons you stated above but will we really want to punish those players that leave for valid reasons? For instance I have left battlegrounds due to being in the wrong spec (PvE spec). I attempted to be useful in the battleground but I was more of annoying to my teammates as I didn't have proper CC spells or buffs that could be helpful in PvP situations.

I hope this made somewhat sense at least and I am moving this into General Discussion as it is not a report (at least no evidence that staff can work with) but it also isn't fully a suggestion as I believe the solution you suggested will not solve the whole problem. Again! If you want me to put it in Suggestion section I'd be happy to do that too, it's up to you, the administrational team takes care of whether suggestions are valid or not, but you didn't put it there from the start that's why I'm not putting it there.

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Re: Mass leaving in RBG

#3 » Post by benzviliran » 15 May 2016 18:51

Mortium wrote:Alright, I didn't really want to give a too hasty answer since I was doing something else most of the day and wanted to rather give a more detailed response. We cannot monitor everything that happens. It would be nearly impossible for us to monitor everything that happens. One of those things we cannot monitor is battlegrounds. That is when it comes to the players to report other players, but even that is not enough sometimes. I am not saying that all reports are always truthful but I am not saying that they are all false. I am saying that us, staff, as a third part it can be sometimes hard to judge especially when there is no clear evidence. As for the other thread that I judged; I judged by confronting the player because I couldn't really do much more since I cannot myself see when someone leaves and stays offline in a battleground unless I am playing the battleground myself.

That will kind of give the answer to this report, there was not evidence enough to actually make any staff be able to judge the situation properly. As for the thread itself, I believe you have some very valid points but they lack solutions, as is the only reason why I am not moving this thread to the suggestion section, but moving this to general discussion as it seems like this thread will become a discussion most probably. You point out very good feedback, in terms of telling us the problems but as I stated the solutions to the problems are not going to solve the issue.

Let me put it in another way, you suggested to have a list of players who leave battlegrounds, by logging off or by leaving normally. Having that will mean that staff has to monitor the list, which isn't too bad. But it will not solve the problem itself. Players will keep on leaving if they want to which is okay to do since the module was created for a bigger population. But doing something about players leaving will mean that we need to rework the whole battleground system and that is what I am trying to point out, you would have to suggest something that could solve the whole problem, because sometimes punishment is not the way to solve a problem. Sometimes it might solve the problem only temporarily, whilst other times it has been proven to solve problems. Players will still leave due to valid reasons as well, of course it will not happen as many times as they leave for the reasons you stated above but will we really want to punish those players that leave for valid reasons? For instance I have left battlegrounds due to being in the wrong spec (PvE spec). I attempted to be useful in the battleground but I was more of annoying to my teammates as I didn't have proper CC spells or buffs that could be helpful in PvP situations.

I hope this made somewhat sense at least and I am moving this into General Discussion as it is not a report (at least no evidence that staff can work with) but it also isn't fully a suggestion as I believe the solution you suggested will not solve the whole problem. Again! If you want me to put it in Suggestion section I'd be happy to do that too, it's up to you, the administrational team takes care of whether suggestions are valid or not, but you didn't put it there from the start that's why I'm not putting it there.
when i wrote this post i knew that wont be a final solution for this issue, it was more important for me to bring that issue up infront of the community.

I dont even know why you think that i said something about banning people who leave, ofc that your example touches us all even i left couple times but i think i left in general 50 rbgs out of 50,000 which means im saying that if leaving a battleground will be monitored and could be shown at the pvp states or even armory with dates and all you could tell if someone leave 20 times a day or 30 times a day, thats by the way what im talking about, im not talking about people who leave twice or 3 times a day i talk about mass leaving.

if you monitor it you could see right away ecxeptionals like when people have average of 5 times left a rbg out of 50 while 3-5 players were having about 30-40 out of 50, those should catch staff eyes and could give the staff more clue about specific players.

in the end it would mean no digging in the darkness and follow players and ask players to start reporting instead of playing the game this is a pain for both players and the staff.

in the end its a tool given to the staff to be able to have a solid proof.

like when you wish to check people suspected for wintrading, what do you do? you can check by the armory who played what did he do in that team against who he played etc and can most of the time give u a clue .

when you have the warnings about hackers that flags them many times you can check them .

that could be pretty much the same in the idea of having a tool that shows how much and how often a player leaves or abandon rbgs.

and again leaving a rbg is ok even if the excuse doesnt sound good to someone else, i accept people leaving i do leave also sometimes when theres a real need, but again im not talking about once in a while or twice etc im talking about way more than that.

i want to finish with that i didnt try or expected from you to hurry, in fact i will always prefer you to answer late and after to think and get more into the topic instead of rushing into giving an answer and not doing it at your best mood, you did well to answer and i wanted you to understand im not trying to push you or something and im pretty happy with how the answer was given.

ill just end this post with saying again that monitoring how many times and how often people leave rbgs will not mean to take an action against those players but only give a picture and if needed and found right to also act against this player.

i think that a player that leaves for example all the time, wouldnt have to mind if he had been given a 10 days deserter for example but i do think that people who join rbgs alot will be happy about that the player wont be able to ruin their rbg for the next 10 days.

you dont have to join rbgs to understand that although i see you active from time to time in rbgs, you can just watch world from time to time and see pretty often how players rage at others who keep leaving rbgs or being afk.
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Nyeriah

Re: Mass leaving in RBG

#4 » Post by Nyeriah » 15 May 2016 19:45

Basically what you're proposing in short words is that people should be forced to sit and play, and that simply won't happen (because it can't happen). There were precedents, and back then that was our consensus.

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Re: Mass leaving in RBG

#5 » Post by benzviliran » 15 May 2016 21:39

Nyeriah wrote:Basically what you're proposing in short words is that people should be forced to sit and play, and that simply won't happen (because it can't happen). There were precedents, and back then that was our consensus.

no im not proposing in short words that people should be forced to sit and play, thats what you are for some reason think im proposing.

i wrote 2 long posts i dont blame you if you havent read everything, i usually dont read some posts in some cases when they are long .

if you truely want to know what i am proposing you should read from the start everything and untill the end.

also let me fix that sentence if you dont mind "people should be forced to sit and play".

fix: "few people should not force other people to not enjoy rbgs"

its not leaving when someone need or feel like im talking about, its about few people habit to leave or afk or go offline on more than 70% of the rbgs they are playing.
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Nyeriah

Re: Mass leaving in RBG

#6 » Post by Nyeriah » 15 May 2016 21:54

So if someone joins a battleground they're not allowed to leave just because "they want to"? They'll have to justify their leaving with a good reason? That's nonsense... I can only imagine all the people who will get reported and all the bother these poor souls will have to go through every time.

And what would be a good reason for leaving to you? That leads to subjective judgement. Subjective judgement should be avoided at most cases. You know, people can tell you whatever they want, and for once, they'll try to justify themselves with "good reasons". How will you know for sure they're saying the truth?

How are few people forcing others to not join bgs? If they dc in a battleground, they get removed after a minute (or idk how long it was)

And I thought intentional afk was already been handled by staff (at least I've seen that sometimes? I am not sure now about that either). I can only think of that rooftop short bus.

Sure, there's people who often leave. They're bad sports, but nothing illegal with that. Unless they're doing so to intentionally favor any team, I don't see the ground for anything to be done regarding this.

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benzviliran
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Re: Mass leaving in RBG

#7 » Post by benzviliran » 15 May 2016 22:38

Nyeriah wrote:So if someone joins a battleground they're not allowed to leave just because "they want to"? They'll have to justify their leaving with a good reason? That's nonsense... I can only imagine all the people who will get reported and all the bother these poor souls will have to go through every time.

And what would be a good reason for leaving to you? That leads to subjective judgement. Subjective judgement should be avoided at most cases. You know, people can tell you whatever they want, and for once, they'll try to justify themselves with "good reasons". How will you know for sure they're saying the truth?

How are few people forcing others to not join bgs? If they dc in a battleground, they get removed after a minute (or idk how long it was)

And I thought intentional afk was already been handled by staff (at least I've seen that sometimes? I am not sure now about that either). I can only think of that rooftop short bus.

Sure, there's people who often leave. They're bad sports, but nothing illegal with that. Unless they're doing so to intentionally favor any team, I don't see the ground for anything to be done regarding this.
sorry but you are not reading at all what im saying.

also here is an example, when someone leave he get deserter when someone leave dungeon he gets aswell(in blizzard) in blizzard u had a 5k+ population and it was made, dont be wrong if they had 400 population they would have treated it more serious.

anyway thats not the point and im not telling to ban etc and judge each one each time he leaves, i only say when someone leaves too much and by too much i mean for example mass joining and leaving or going offline and there are several people who do that they should be checked .

if someone for example join 20 bgs and leave 15 of them then yes he should explain himself otherwise i dont see any point of joining from the start other than enjoying ruining to others.
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Longi
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Re: Mass leaving in RBG

#8 » Post by Longi » 15 May 2016 22:56

something like Deserter buff for Bgs can be fine :) it doesnt look as bad idea


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Re: Mass leaving in RBG

#9 » Post by Nymunne » 15 May 2016 23:05

Sorry but I'm with Nyeriah on this one. Players are free to leave the battleground if they wish.

Sorry if I may sound rude now but I rather focus on other things than babysit every player that decides to leave or rage quit a battleground mass leaving or no mass leaving.

Still nothing "illegal" in that unless they are actually dual boxing in PvP which for that we have ways to check.

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Re: Mass leaving in RBG

#10 » Post by benzviliran » 15 May 2016 23:33

Nymunne wrote:Sorry but I'm with Nyeriah on this one. Players are free to leave the battleground if they wish.

Sorry if I may sound rude now but I rather focus on other things than babysit every player that decides to leave or rage quit a battleground mass leaving or no mass leaving.

Still nothing "illegal" in that unless they are actually dual boxing in PvP which for that we have ways to check.
not rude at all, however the fact that theres a deserter debuff for players who leave it means they do something wrong .

the fact that we have a low population and those players cant be replaced right away make it 10x times worse.

blizzard found sense in it i dont see what is the difference between dual log and leaving in the end both brings the same result which is -1 or more to the group, ofc that dual logging logicly is more reasonable to be dealt with as its an intentional and more clear abuse , it is an abuse.

but leaving is also some sort of against the rules from 1 point of view, if youll check the rules theres something about disturbing alot of people in some way could result in a ban, now when 1 guy or 2 guys leave ALOT of times in a short period of time thats disturbing, no im not talking about people who leave rbgs cause they had to go to raid or even didnt feel like staying even if they left after 1 sec.

im talking about people who does that all the time, and honestly u wont have to babysit thats the whole point.

if there will be a slot added to the already exists list of pvp states etc that shows how many times player left who top etc youll be able to know who does that in a way that should not be acceptable.

for example if average amount of people at top who left would be 8 left for each it would be normal, but if 1 which would be at the top would have 55 that wouldnt make sense right? that players should be checked if someone having such an extreme amount of rbgs leaving thats not normal, and im talking about the list that shows at this weak and just gave an example, same could be said for a month if top 10 had in total this month just like wins but with left a rbg 20 times and 1 has 70 thats an extreme amount of leaving and should be checked.

my point is u dont have to babysit its not hard at all and people could report it alone because its shown to public, just as people who report wintraders in arenas they show u ss's of people who won like 22 times same group while the other group had 0 dmg 0 heals for example. all the staff has to do is if the states are really extreme to check it.

same idea here no hard working and if people really care they can report it when they see something not right.
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Floss
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Re: Mass leaving in RBG

#11 » Post by Floss » 16 May 2016 00:37

Allow Cross faction bgs. K bye.

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Mala
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Re: Mass leaving in RBG

#12 » Post by Mala » 17 May 2016 09:21

Floss wrote:Allow Cross faction bgs. K bye.
They have already allowed cross-faction transfers. Join the Horde if you are not happy in Alliance. Stop whining.
“The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference. The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference. And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.”
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Re: Mass leaving in RBG

#13 » Post by Floss » 17 May 2016 12:00

Mala wrote:
Floss wrote:Allow Cross faction bgs. K bye.
They have already allowed cross-faction transfers. Join the Horde if you are not happy in Alliance. Stop whining.
Who's whining lol... i just suggested a solution to the problem.

We are literally raping hordes daily in bgs. Couldn't be happier about it . Thanks for the concern tho. ^_^

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benzviliran
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Re: Mass leaving in RBG

#14 » Post by benzviliran » 17 May 2016 19:08

crossfaction or anything to do with factions isnt related or have anything to do with the topic or the issue....

its a problem on both factions that should be solved in one way or another.
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benzviliran
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Re: Mass leaving in RBG

#15 » Post by benzviliran » 20 May 2016 15:57

http://prntscr.com/b6btwj

this is what is happening in rbgs alot, this yellow message with a player name, there are players that are shown in this message for so many times .
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