Add Epic gems to Black Sack of Gems & Brilliant Glass.

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Relina
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Add Epic gems to Black Sack of Gems & Brilliant Glass.

#1 » Post by Relina » 26 Nov 2018 07:50

I'm suggesting that we add Epic gems to both Black Sack of Gems (20~40% chance) & Brilliant Glass (5-10% chance) either ASAP or with the launch of ZA.
Though this change was done with the Sunwell patch on retail, we really could use an uptick to sources of Epic gems.
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Dreadnought101
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Re: Add Epic gems to Black Sack of Gems & Brilliant Glass.

#2 » Post by Dreadnought101 » 26 Nov 2018 16:55

Agreed to add gem drops to magtheridon, though I know there are several players that have stocked up 50+ brilliant glass in their bank ready for sunwell change to drop.
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Relina
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Re: Add Epic gems to Black Sack of Gems & Brilliant Glass.

#3 » Post by Relina » 26 Nov 2018 18:11

Dreadnought101 wrote:
26 Nov 2018 16:55
Agreed to add gem drops to magtheridon, though I know there are several players that have stocked up 50+ brilliant glass in their bank ready for sunwell change to drop.
Easy to fix that exploit, though might need a re-work on the way Brilliant Glass is scripted.
So that Brilliant Glasses that have already been created before the update won't drop Epic gems.
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bobsmyname
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Re: Add Epic gems to Black Sack of Gems & Brilliant Glass.

#4 » Post by bobsmyname » 26 Nov 2018 18:44

Just give it from brill glasses. The only way to get epic gems is to 'sometimes' get t6 equiv gear, or corrupt Exalted Rep's GM / Officer ranks. That 2 sp increase isnt going to break the game for sanctuary or legion.
Again comming back to my other posts, there's no way for pvper's to get gems except to steal them from Exalted Rep (again, abusing GM / Officer ranks).

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Re: Add Epic gems to Black Sack of Gems & Brilliant Glass.

#5 » Post by Bloodshade » 26 Nov 2018 21:06

Dreadnought101 wrote:
26 Nov 2018 16:55
Agreed to add gem drops to magtheridon, though I know there are several players that have stocked up 50+ brilliant glass in their bank ready for sunwell change to drop.
A container's loot is determined the moment the container drops, not the moment you open it, they can store them till cata if they want.
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Re: Add Epic gems to Black Sack of Gems & Brilliant Glass.

#6 » Post by zackforester » 26 Nov 2018 21:53

Bloodshade wrote:
26 Nov 2018 21:06
Dreadnought101 wrote:
26 Nov 2018 16:55
Agreed to add gem drops to magtheridon, though I know there are several players that have stocked up 50+ brilliant glass in their bank ready for sunwell change to drop.
A container's loot is determined the moment the container drops, not the moment you open it, they can store them till cata if they want.
This is factually incorrect.

By Aliandrin (21,896 – 6·36·169) on 2012/11/27 (Patch 5.0.5)
Very valuable information here, so downvote quickly or others will see it.

Discovered: Items from lootable sacks such as these are generated on opening, not when you obtain the sack.

How do I know this? I stored up my sacks of pet supplies until today, when 5.1 hit and I gleefully opened exactly 50 of them.

I obtained (in addition to 76 bandages and a bunch of junk):
1x Flawless Dragonkin Evolution Stone
2x Flawless Magic Evolution Stone
1x Flawless Mechanical Evolution Stone (I hate mechanicals. *cries and discards*)
3x Flawless Flying Evolution Stone

All of these sacks were obtained pre 5.1. They were opened today, at 5.1. They contained evolution stones that only exist in 5.1. Therefore, stuff is generated on opening.

https://www.wowhead.com/item=89125/sack ... s#comments

A container's contents are generated the first time it is open and the contents are viewed. If you received a container, never viewed it contents, and banked it, the contents would not be generated. If new items are added to a container's random loot table and the container is opened after those items are added, the container has the chance to contain the new items.

That said, I'm in favor of adding the Epic Gems to the Black Sack, the Broken Glass, and the Bag of Premium Gems from being Exalted with the Consortium.

With Hyjal having been out for 25 lockouts, we should already have access to ~240 epic gems if the drop rate from the Ancient Gem Veins was scripted correctly. We currently only have access to about 50 of them after BT has already been opened for 2 weeks.

https://web.archive.org/web/20110626125 ... ect=185557

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Relina
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Re: Add Epic gems to Black Sack of Gems & Brilliant Glass.

#7 » Post by Relina » 26 Nov 2018 22:43

zackforester wrote:
26 Nov 2018 21:53
Spoiler:
This is factually incorrect.

By Aliandrin (21,896 – 6·36·169) on 2012/11/27 (Patch 5.0.5)
Very valuable information here, so downvote quickly or others will see it.

Discovered: Items from lootable sacks such as these are generated on opening, not when you obtain the sack.

How do I know this? I stored up my sacks of pet supplies until today, when 5.1 hit and I gleefully opened exactly 50 of them.

I obtained (in addition to 76 bandages and a bunch of junk):
1x Flawless Dragonkin Evolution Stone
2x Flawless Magic Evolution Stone
1x Flawless Mechanical Evolution Stone (I hate mechanicals. *cries and discards*)
3x Flawless Flying Evolution Stone

All of these sacks were obtained pre 5.1. They were opened today, at 5.1. They contained evolution stones that only exist in 5.1. Therefore, stuff is generated on opening.

https://www.wowhead.com/item=89125/sack ... s#comments

A container's contents are generated the first time it is open and the contents are viewed. If you received a container, never viewed it contents, and banked it, the contents would not be generated. If new items are added to a container's random loot table and the container is opened after those items are added, the container has the chance to contain the new items.

That said, I'm in favor of adding the Epic Gems to the Black Sack, the Broken Glass, and the Bag of Premium Gems from being Exalted with the Consortium.

https://web.archive.org/web/20110626125 ... ect=185557
The pet bag comment isn't conclusive proof, there might have/not been changes to how containers presented loot by patch 5.1

-1 for changing Bag of Premium Gems, as they never had Epic gems dropping from them in Retail so that is un-needed.

Also about Ancient Gem Veins, I think they got a hotfix to increase drop rates in patch 2.4+

Now all we need to find is what this "old system" was.
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Bloodshade
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Re: Add Epic gems to Black Sack of Gems & Brilliant Glass.

#8 » Post by Bloodshade » 27 Nov 2018 11:56

zackforester wrote:
26 Nov 2018 21:53
ss
As a comment reply under what you link states "the bags probably got deleted and replaced with new ones"(new IDs) and blizz probably didn't care a lot about some people getting a bit better pet battle items. Loot in WoW and Diablo has always been generated the moment the container drops, I've saved boxes myself with the idea of tricking the system but with no luck... Same thing is with NPCs, their loot is determined the moment they spawn, not when killed/looted.

Anyway need a Developer can confirm

Edit: removed the "blizz employee part" since I found it lol
Last edited by Bloodshade on 27 Nov 2018 16:03, edited 2 times in total.
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natnat123
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Re: Add Epic gems to Black Sack of Gems & Brilliant Glass.

#9 » Post by natnat123 » 27 Nov 2018 12:39

Zack is correct :p

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Bloodshade
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Re: Add Epic gems to Black Sack of Gems & Brilliant Glass.

#10 » Post by Bloodshade » 27 Nov 2018 13:05

natnat123 wrote:
27 Nov 2018 12:39
Zack is correct :p
So containers create loot on opening and Npcs create loot on death?

What about this ultra old topic by a Blizz GM I was trying to find :

http://blue.cardplace.com/newcache/us/4311143050.htm
"Loot is generated upon creation." He is referring to mobs but should be the same for containers?
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Re: Add Epic gems to Black Sack of Gems & Brilliant Glass.

#11 » Post by natnat123 » 27 Nov 2018 21:48

Bloodshade wrote:
27 Nov 2018 13:05
natnat123 wrote:
27 Nov 2018 12:39
Zack is correct :p
So containers create loot on opening and Npcs create loot on death?

What about this ultra old topic by a Blizz GM I was trying to find :

http://blue.cardplace.com/newcache/us/4311143050.htm
"Loot is generated upon creation." He is referring to mobs but should be the same for containers?
thats how it used to work, during TBC and around the time black temple was released. people found a way to check if the warglaives where going to be spawned in that instance, so people would enter the instance on reset day over and over untill they got one with warglaives in. thats why blizzard changed it.

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Re: Add Epic gems to Black Sack of Gems & Brilliant Glass.

#12 » Post by natnat123 » 27 Nov 2018 21:53

now all loot is calculated upon opening the container, wether it be a dead boss, mining node, chest ect ect.

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Relina
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Re: Add Epic gems to Black Sack of Gems & Brilliant Glass.

#13 » Post by Relina » 28 Nov 2018 11:22

natnat123 wrote:
27 Nov 2018 21:53
now all loot is calculated upon opening the container, wether it be a dead boss, mining node, chest ect ect.
Oh so it was a hotfix done to prevent loot abuse, though seems to have been done post BT or post sunwell.
But since we use wotlk core, I guess this behavior is the norm for us.

Rather than flood the market with Epic gems due to this unintentional bug due to different loot mechanics from tbc to wotlk, maybe we should reconsider adding the gems to these items at all and instead add the Gems to the Badge vendors ,though a reset of Badges before this happens would actually be nice way to boost rdf activity.

Or could emualte TBC and re-script the loot mechanic for these items only, like was done in the vanilla phase to druid t1 set bonus.
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