Count To A Million

Off-topic posts of interest to the World of Warcraft community.
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Intervention
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Re: Count To A Million

#7516 » Post by Intervention » 30 Apr 2012 14:09

The Vietnam War was foreign policy, so in a sense, it was completely different to what was happening on the home front in the US. But there's no way i am even going to get that off topic into Vietnam foreign policy. But, yeah LBJ was pro anti-communism, then again so was most the US. When the Vietnam war began he had a majority of the support for the war but by the turn of the century it had all but gone really.

Oh and i think it would be a good debate as to whether he put more effort into Vietnam or the home-front. There are still some prolonged effects of his policies to date, the head start program to improve education, just to name one. Then, on the other side of the fence, he loved sending his advisers into Vietnam... I do however think he somewhat ignored the cries of the people regarding the stop to the war and continued on other social policies (which weren't all so bad).


7516
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Re: Count To A Million

#7517 » Post by narcissa » 30 Apr 2012 14:25

Intervention wrote:pro anti-communism
totally my new favourite expression :D

Jokes aside, I previously stated I'm ignorant on American history so any debate would be stupid and also very boring, but I would support an anti-violence and pro-equality movement any time over someone that improves a country but supports and finances war.

7517

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Re: Count To A Million

#7518 » Post by Intervention » 30 Apr 2012 14:36

Pro anti-communism sounded good in my head alright! :(

7518.

P.S. True. My favourite civil rights protest is the sit in movements. Google it if you're not sure what they are. Pure class.
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Re: Count To A Million

#7519 » Post by DarKPuRiTy » 04 May 2012 19:22

OMG Diablo 3 is coming \m/

7519

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Re: Count To A Million

#7520 » Post by Heihachi » 04 May 2012 19:24

1 mil get!!!

1000000 :D yay!!

jk.... 7520

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Re: Count To A Million

#7521 » Post by Kraith » 06 May 2012 17:44

Intervention wrote:Oh and i think it would be a good debate as to whether he put more effort into Vietnam or the home-front. There are still some prolonged effects of his policies to date, the head start program to improve education, just to name one. Then, on the other side of the fence, he loved sending his advisers into Vietnam... I do however think he somewhat ignored the cries of the people regarding the stop to the war and continued on other social policies (which weren't all so bad).

7516
Well, I think LBJ wanted to put all his effort into the domestic economy/welfare. He used the good economy to fund the early years of the Great Society without tax raises, although that created problems later when the Vietnam war started. Once LBJ was forced to fight in Vietnam, he couldn't fund both the Great Society and the war. Thus he had to fight the war first and cut GS programs. LBJ had to put Vietnam first because of containment. Now, if you really want to start debate, ask whether Vietnam was successful and necessary. (IIMO, it was) ;)

Well I probably differ with you on whether Great Society changes were good (excluding voting rights), but it's a very neat subject. Intelligent policy debate on off topic? :D

Heihachi wrote:1 mil get!!!

1000000 :D yay!!

jk.... 7520
Or maybe not.... jkjk ;)

7521
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Re: Count To A Million

#7522 » Post by narcissa » 06 May 2012 17:51

Kraith wrote:Now, if you really want to start debate, ask whether Vietnam was successful and necessary. (IIMO, it was) ;)
gotta love war supporters.

7522

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Re: Count To A Million

#7523 » Post by Mmeko » 06 May 2012 20:03

Debating wether a war was necessary or not is pretty silly since it's a really subjective matter. But the fact that the Vietnam war wasn't a successful one is widely known

7523

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Re: Count To A Million

#7524 » Post by Kraith » 06 May 2012 22:08

narcissa wrote:
Kraith wrote:Now, if you really want to start debate, ask whether Vietnam was successful and necessary. (IIMO, it was) ;)
gotta love war supporters.

7522
Actually I'm not a war supporter, especially in current politics. Cold War's a weird mental state, different paradigm that modern relations. I can't pretend to understand the tension between the US and USSR.
Mmeko wrote:Debating wether a war was necessary or not is pretty silly since it's a really subjective matter. But the fact that the Vietnam war wasn't a successful one is widely known
7523
The war itself failed, yeah, but it was impossible to win. Just like the U.S. war in the Middle East... Then again, I come from an American's perspective on all these wars, although I've had training in Europeans' perspective too.

.......

See that cute cat on Youtube?

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Re: Count To A Million

#7525 » Post by narcissa » 06 May 2012 22:13

Kraith wrote:Actually I'm not a war supporter, especially in current politics. Cold War's a weird mental state, different paradigm that modern relations.
weren't there victims in the Vietnam war?

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Re: Count To A Million

#7526 » Post by Kraith » 06 May 2012 23:05

narcissa wrote:
Kraith wrote:Actually I'm not a war supporter, especially in current politics. Cold War's a weird mental state, different paradigm that modern relations.
weren't there victims in the Vietnam war?
Yeah, there were lots. It's a great tragedy. The Viet Cong and North & South Vietnamese looked identical, it's the evilness of guerrilla warfare. Take the My Lai Massacre; the mental torture of soldiers being surrounded everyday by people who cannot identify as allies, neutrals, or enemies ready to kill you is evil. Not trying to justify anything, but war has victims. Although it happens a lot less now with the evolution of warfare into specialized attacks rather than trench, kill everything that moves/millions die in a day, type warfare...

If the Cold War hadn't been going on, the US would have backed the Vietnamese instead of the French, which would have probably prevented a lot of the war (although that could have caused Europe to erupt.) Cold War sucks, I'm happy I didn't live in it.

7526 (+2 for ya) ;)
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Re: Count To A Million

#7527 » Post by Heihachi » 06 May 2012 23:17

why is everyone have a off-by-one error?
at the top of each post there is the post number next to Re: Count To A Million

7526 (following my peers :P)

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Re: Count To A Million

#7528 » Post by narcissa » 06 May 2012 23:22

Yeah, I always forget numbers in discussions >.<

My point was you said the war was necessary. Regardless if politically or historically any war was "necessary", it's a view that I can never share, since there's nothing that makes wars or violence legitimate. Call me naive, tree-hugger or ignorant, that's the way I think and no political reasons will change my mind.

And that's why, talking about Martin Luther King earlier, I said it's right that he's admired (even if he should be admired as frontman of a movement), because of what he achieved, what he fought for and the ideals with which he did so, as in no violence of any form. And the reason I don't see any American president or political figure worth of the same honour.

7528

why is there someone coming every few posts asking the same thing and wrongly correcting the numbers? :D

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Re: Count To A Million

#7529 » Post by Heihachi » 06 May 2012 23:29

narcissa wrote:Yeah, I always forget numbers in discussions >.<

My point was you said the war was necessary. Regardless if politically or historically any war was "necessary", it's a view that I can never share, since there's nothing that makes wars or violence legitimate. Call me naive, tree-hugger or ignorant, that's the way I think and no political reasons will change my mind.

And that's why, talking about Martin Luther King earlier, I said it's right that he's admired (even if he should be admired as frontman of a movement), because of what he achieved, what he fought for and the ideals with which he did so, as in no violence of any form. And the reason I don't see any American president or political figure worth of the same honour.

7528

why is there someone coming every few posts asking the same thing and wrongly correcting the numbers? :D
shhhhh i want to see who can figure it out xD

7529

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Re: Count To A Million

#7530 » Post by Kraith » 07 May 2012 13:04

narcissa wrote:My point was you said the war was necessary. Regardless if politically or historically any war was "necessary", it's a view that I can never share, since there's nothing that makes wars or violence legitimate. Call me naive, tree-hugger or ignorant, that's the way I think and no political reasons will change my mind.

And that's why, talking about Martin Luther King earlier, I said it's right that he's admired (even if he should be admired as frontman of a movement), because of what he achieved, what he fought for and the ideals with which he did so, as in no violence of any form. And the reason I don't see any American president or political figure worth of the same honour.
Well, the Cold War could have been prevented for sure. The USSR and the US diplomatically botched up the whole affair after WWII. And no, I definitely don't think you're naive. I think wars are practically inevitable because humans are evil, but that doesn't justify them. By saying Vietnam was necessary, I meant pragmatically that mistakes had already been and weren't resolved, which practically caused it.

And I'd agree re MLK.

7530
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